Mohammed's goal in claiming that the Hebrew Bible has been altered / corrupted via the Koran1 is three-fold.
- It serves the intent to delegitimize the ancient Biblical reality that in no possible way could ever recognize a non-Jewish prophet to Israel, nor another "chosen people" during the time of the Jewish prophets nor during the time their prophesies of the future concerning Israel.
- It allows one single man (Mohammad himself) with his revelation to inject anything he wanted to be taken as the supposedly inspired word of God regardless of how it contradicted the Torah and the many Hebrew prophets.
- The corruption charge allows a "fix" for the obvious totally different themes between the Hebrew Bible and the Koran. Without the corruption charge it becomes greatly evident that Mohammad and his Koran are not linked to the God of the Hebrew Bible.
I find when debating Muslims that they don't want to spend a lot of time on this subject and are more than willing to quickly move on to another subject of debate. The reason for this "get off the subject" mentality can be summed up in one word - "proof". Since the whole foundation of Islam is based upon one man's revelation, historical evidence of what this one man states is not a necessity nor a priority. As part of the five pillars of Islam a "true" Muslim is required only to proclaim by faith the shahadah2 and not to investigate for themselves what the Islamic community expects them to believe and accept as "holy truth" from God.
For the Muslim apologists who feel adventurous enough, I have constructed my very own "proof-application" that allows you to prove your Islamic claim of Jewish Scripture corruption. This proof-application is at the end of this blog. Just fill in the proof answers to the questions using the post availability in the "readers comments" of this blog.
One of the questions on my "proof-application" is exactly "when" did the Jewish corruption of scriptures take place? I've had a lot of Muslims tell me that the Jews changed their scriptures because they didn't want to accept Mohammad as their prophet who was clearly revealed in the Jewish scriptures. Wow, that sounds something like what those evil known Jews might do in the ears of a willing antisemite. Since hadith-legend has it that it was a Jewish woman's poison from three years earlier is what finally killed Mohammad, why wouldn't the Jews go as far as to doctor up their scriptures in order to convince themselves Mohammad wasn't their true and last prophet?
Of course this answer creates more problems for the Muslims since such scripture corruption claim would had to occurred "after" Mohammad's birth in 570 C.E. of which any changes of Hebrew scripture would be reflected in the comparison with the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Deuteronomy Scrolls, and the Septuagint of 250 B.C.E. (some 820 years "before" the birth of Mohammed) with any post-Islam produced Hebrew text!
It must be noted that first-century Jesus (of whom I refer to as "Isa, so-called prophet of Islam" to make my point stronger when debating Muslims) in all of his criticism directed towards the Jews of his day, never one time even insinuated to the slightest degree of a Hebrew text alteration. One would think that Isa being Allah's virgin-born messiah who has a lot of airtime in the Koran and one who ridiculed the Pharisees' non-Biblical traditions (see Matthew 15:4-9) would surely expose the Jews for altering Allah's message to the prophets and to Israel?
On the other hand, Isa, the so-called prophet of Islam, vindicated the whole of the Hebrew scriptures. He stated emphatically in John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me". Now, for some reason he didn't state, "Search the "corrupted scriptures" for in them ye think ye have eternal life...".
In continuing in exploring this same mindset of Isa, the so-called prophet of Islam, in Matthew 5:18 he makes the very clear and direct statement, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from The Law, till all be fulfilled." The "jot" in this statement is meaning the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet - the yod, and the "tittle" meaning any small stroke of a scribe's pen.
In continuing in exploring this same mindset of Isa, the so-called prophet of Islam, in Matthew 5:18 he makes the very clear and direct statement, "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from The Law, till all be fulfilled." The "jot" in this statement is meaning the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet - the yod, and the "tittle" meaning any small stroke of a scribe's pen.
Therefore, Isa, so-called prophet of Islam, is stating as a matter of "spiritual fact" that not even "one" (get it? not even one single one) little very small yod letter nor not even "one" stroke of the scribes pen in his rendering the Torah of Moses will in no way be lost or unfulfilled (via corruption or otherwise) at anytime or at any place before the time of Isa, the so-called prophet of Islam himself! Muslims who believe Jesus to be Isa, a prophet of Islam, has his very word on this!
Since the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Deuteronomy Scrolls, and the Septuagint (all dating several centuries before the birth of Mohammad) shows no signs of deliberate corruption with a comparison of today's text, then perhaps Isa, so-called prophet of Islam, should be credited for being 100% accurate in stating as a matter of "spiritual fact" that literally even one of the smallest strokes of the scribe's pen and every single writing of one single (smallest letter) yod would indeed be totally preserved and uncorrupted until the time of first century Isa himself? Perhaps "the corruption" is not with the historically prove-preservation of the Hebrew text but with a non-Jewish / Jew-murdering wanna-be-prophet from Arabia named Mohammad who gave a false revelation from a lying spirit that he called Allah in Koran (sura) 2:75 / 6:115-116?
Confronted with this, Islamic apologists use the old European Christian tactic of trying to prove their religion using the Hebrew scriptures since their scriptures can't vindicate their doctrine on its own. Islamic doctrine has to go as far as having to use the so-called "corrupted Hebrew text" in order to "prove" their point. Isn't that something? In other words they have to use a what they consider a corrupted text in order to prove what they consider accurate.
Jeremiah 8:8
Islamic apologists use Jeremiah 8:8 as their Jewish scripture corruption "proof text" which reads: "How can you say, we (are) wise and YHVH's Torah (is) with us. Indeed, behold, for falsehood he made (the) pen, falsehood (are the) scribes.3"
Like most all the proof-texts within Christian theology, Islam's proof-texts are "always" taken out of context in order to get the desired Koran-accepting interpretation that Islamic apologists are seeking. Jeremiah 8:8 is in no possible way referring directly or alluding to an alteration of the written Law of Moses! I will address the obvious context of Jeremiah 8:8 further down, but first I want to show how ridiculous and how far Islamic interpretation is willing to travel, and what they spiritually refuse to consider about their interpretation.
The "facts" that Islamic apologists refuse to acknowledge that directly relates to their proof-text interpretation of Jeremiah 8:8 are as follows:
Jeremiah is admonishing Israel for having the Law of Moses (which verifies in and of itself a preserved Law of Moses) yet making even the writing of it by a religious scribe vain because it wasn't being kept. Jeremiah is setting Israel up for a deeper condemnation by him taking their own statement of fact that they were using as a cloak for their iniquity "the Law of the YHVH is with us" and using their statement of truth against them. It would be the same principle as Isa, so-called prophet of Islam, stating, ">The scribes< and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. - Matthew 23:2-3.
Perhaps Isa, so-called prophet of Islam, wouldn't tell his Jewish audience to observe something of falsehood (corruption of the Law Moses held by the Scribes and Pharisees) no more than the prophet Jeremiah would condemn Israel for having a legitimate excuse (a corrupted Law) for "not" obeying it?
Jeremiah 8:8
Islamic apologists use Jeremiah 8:8 as their Jewish scripture corruption "proof text" which reads: "How can you say, we (are) wise and YHVH's Torah (is) with us. Indeed, behold, for falsehood he made (the) pen, falsehood (are the) scribes.3"
Like most all the proof-texts within Christian theology, Islam's proof-texts are "always" taken out of context in order to get the desired Koran-accepting interpretation that Islamic apologists are seeking. Jeremiah 8:8 is in no possible way referring directly or alluding to an alteration of the written Law of Moses! I will address the obvious context of Jeremiah 8:8 further down, but first I want to show how ridiculous and how far Islamic interpretation is willing to travel, and what they spiritually refuse to consider about their interpretation.
The "facts" that Islamic apologists refuse to acknowledge that directly relates to their proof-text interpretation of Jeremiah 8:8 are as follows:
- The Law (of Moses) that the prophet Jeremiah mentions within the short text is the same "exact" Law of Moses that Isa, so-called prophet of Islam said that not even "one" small-letter yod nor one small stroke of the pen of the written Law vanish (via corruption or otherwise) until his time on earth. (See Matthew 5:18)
- At the time of Jeremiah's writing of Jeremiah 8:8 ("before" the Babylonian exile) not a single one of the Hebrew minor prophets4 who prophesied "after" the Babylonian exile and of whom contributes a good portion of the Hebrew Bible, had yet to write one single word of scripture. This was also the case of much of the section of the Hebrew Bible called "The Writings"5 (Ketuvim in Hebrew) that includes the books of Ezra, Nehemiah, and Daniel.
- A minimum of fourteen Hebrew prophets who prophesied "after" Jeremiah and came with "Thus saith YHVH" never even as much as hinted of there being an alteration within written Law of Moses!
- ***Here's the kicker*** It was during the very life and times of the prophet Jeremiah that a temple priest named Hilkiah found a "preserved" Law scroll (thus being unaltered I might add) that the prophetess Hulda verified and that the Bible-declared "righteous" King Josiah dedicated his very life towards! See II Chronicles 34:14-31
- The Hebrew prophet Malachi prophesied about two hundred years "after" the prophet Jeremiah. As a prophet of YHVH Malachi gave the nation of Israel the following spiritual commandment: "Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments."6 There could be no such commandment coming from a prophet of YHVH if corruption within the Law of Moses was present! This prophet's command alone demonstrates with certainty that the Law of Moses mentioned in Jeremiah 8:8 has been totally persevered.
Jeremiah is admonishing Israel for having the Law of Moses (which verifies in and of itself a preserved Law of Moses) yet making even the writing of it by a religious scribe vain because it wasn't being kept. Jeremiah is setting Israel up for a deeper condemnation by him taking their own statement of fact that they were using as a cloak for their iniquity "the Law of the YHVH is with us" and using their statement of truth against them. It would be the same principle as Isa, so-called prophet of Islam, stating, ">The scribes< and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. - Matthew 23:2-3.
Perhaps Isa, so-called prophet of Islam, wouldn't tell his Jewish audience to observe something of falsehood (corruption of the Law Moses held by the Scribes and Pharisees) no more than the prophet Jeremiah would condemn Israel for having a legitimate excuse (a corrupted Law) for "not" obeying it?
This simple fact is, the temple was destroyed due to the Jews "NOT" obeying the preserved Law of Moses that Jeremiah 8:8 refers to (see Daniel 9:11-14). YHVH would be unjust in destroying the temple for the reason that the Jews did not obey the pure Law of Moses that they didn't have access to via corruption that supposedly occurred generations earlier!
The very fact that the prophet Daniel even refers to the "Law of Moses" within his own writings that came long after Jeremiah, illustrates that Daniel was accustom to reading from an uncorrupted text of the Law of Moses that caused him to know that Israel hadn't kept the pure Law of Moses. Otherwise the prophet Daniel when writing Daniel 9:11-14, would have been referring to a something corrupted while writing his holy script, which is not suggested to the slightest degree in any part of his writings.
Who is Jeremiah referring to?
The very fact that the prophet Daniel even refers to the "Law of Moses" within his own writings that came long after Jeremiah, illustrates that Daniel was accustom to reading from an uncorrupted text of the Law of Moses that caused him to know that Israel hadn't kept the pure Law of Moses. Otherwise the prophet Daniel when writing Daniel 9:11-14, would have been referring to a something corrupted while writing his holy script, which is not suggested to the slightest degree in any part of his writings.
Who is Jeremiah referring to?
There were scribes, false priests, and false prophets during the time of Jeremiah as well as other times throughout the Hebrew Bible (see Isaiah 28:7-9). They taught falsehoods against the Law of Moses often using their pen (quill) to do so such as the letter sent by Shemaiah that Jeremiah himself mentions in Jeremiah 29:25-27. Such Jews being teachers of falsehoods were before Jeremiah and came long after Jeremiah even unto this modern present day! The false prophets of Jeremiah's day are no different than what is visible of today's so-called orthodox Neturei Karta "Jewish" organization. The Neturei Karta cannot change, alter, omit, or add to the Law of Moses today just as Shemaiah or any false scribe could do during the time of Jeremiah's day.
The bottom line is that Jeremiah 8:8 is in no way referring a Hebrew scripture alteration. Such a belief only comes from a very weak Islamic position trying to use wordplay by using the Hebrew text to somehow justify their ridiculous non-Hebrew seventh-century Koranic claim.
The Name of YHVH
In my many debates with Muslims, I've actually have had some, when confronted with the 6828 times the name of YHVH is used throughout the Hebrew Bible (three times more than their favorite Elohim, El, Elah, Eloah added together) See my blog> http://judaism-now.blogspot.com/2010/07/gods-name-original.html state that the very Name of YHVH is an corruption-addition to the original Hebrew text. They will actually claim that the Aramaic is closer to the Arabic (which is a lie especially since the Aramaic uses the Hebrew alphabet) and that the Name of YHVH is not in the Aramaic version of the Hebrew Bible. This is how far some Islamic apologists are willing to go in making themselves spiritually-stupid in order to support their lying Koran!
Here are some facts in response to such an Islamic asinine (biblically a "wild-ass" according to Genesis 16:12) doctrine that seeks to destroy the God of Israel's most holy and most personal Name:
The bottom line is that Jeremiah 8:8 is in no way referring a Hebrew scripture alteration. Such a belief only comes from a very weak Islamic position trying to use wordplay by using the Hebrew text to somehow justify their ridiculous non-Hebrew seventh-century Koranic claim.
The Name of YHVH
In my many debates with Muslims, I've actually have had some, when confronted with the 6828 times the name of YHVH is used throughout the Hebrew Bible (three times more than their favorite Elohim, El, Elah, Eloah added together) See my blog> http://judaism-now.blogspot.com/2010/07/gods-name-original.html state that the very Name of YHVH is an corruption-addition to the original Hebrew text. They will actually claim that the Aramaic is closer to the Arabic (which is a lie especially since the Aramaic uses the Hebrew alphabet) and that the Name of YHVH is not in the Aramaic version of the Hebrew Bible. This is how far some Islamic apologists are willing to go in making themselves spiritually-stupid in order to support their lying Koran!
Here are some facts in response to such an Islamic asinine (biblically a "wild-ass" according to Genesis 16:12) doctrine that seeks to destroy the God of Israel's most holy and most personal Name:
- The Israelites most original language is Hebrew which was developed within the land of Israel not Aramaic that was developed outside of Israel. Even according to the Koran (see sura 2:53) Moses was given the Torah (that contained the introduction of the Name of YHVH in Exodus 6:2-3) long before the Babylonian exile that influenced Aramiac to be spoken among the Jews in their land of exile. There is a reason as to why the Aramaic version of the Hebrew Bible are called Targum which means "translation or interpretation" from the original Hebrew.
- Yale University Professor of Humanities, Harold Bloom (a non-religious individual) states in his book entitled "Jesus and Yahweh" on page 128, "Yahweh must be a very old name; it is used in Deborah's great War Song (Judges Chapter 5), which is eleventh-century B.C.E. and could be the oldest text in Hebrew. There are references to the name as early as 1400 B.C.E. in Syria."
- A letter fifth-century B.C.E. letter was written from a Jewish settlement on the island of Yeb (Elephantine) where Aswan Dam is located today. >http://www.kchanson.com/ancdocs/westsem/templeauth.html The letter contains references to the "Temple of YHVH" in Aramaic not Hebrew.
- Biblical names that have references within the Koran such as Jew (title), John (the Baptist), Jesus, and Zacharias all contain references to the Name of YHVH within the human name itself, not to mention my favorite when it comes to this issue: "Elijah" meaning "God is YHVH". I like to ask Islamic apologist with such a YHVH-denying claim as to what the last three letters of the name Elijah (jah) means, or the last two letters in pronunciation of the Arabic-English version of Zacharias being "Zakariyya" means.
- The Koran itself makes reference to YHVH in the form of a title in one of the most popular verses in the Koran called Ayat-ul-Kursî . Al-Qayyum is the 63rd. of the 99 title-names for Allah found in Koran (sura 2:255) meaning, "the self-existing one". > http://www.islamicedfoundation.com/99names/99names2.htm Islam just switched the most personal Name of the God of Israel YHVH into an appellation-title (one of ninety-nine) and made the appellation-title name of Elohim / Elah (the same Hebrew /Aramac pronunciation of their mood-god deity Allah - the 'chief' god of the Arabian pantheon of gods) as His most personal name.
- All 6828 times throughout the entire Hebrew Bible where the Name of YHVH is mentioned would have to be 6828 corruption occurrences without even a single trace of historical evidence. This would include the context of Jeremiah 8:8 - the Islamic proof-text itself - that uses the Name of YHVH just one verse prior and just one verse after (verses 7 and 9 of the same chapter). All Islamic apologist are encouraged to see the Islamic "proof-application" below.
Notes:
1. Koran (sura) 2:75, 6:115
2. The Shahadah is similar to the Christian profession of faith. The proclamation is usually done in Arabic (the language of Mohammed). "(ašhadu an) lā ilāha illá l-Lāhi wa (ashhadu 'anna) Muḥammadan rasūlu l-Lāhi "(I profess that) there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of god."
3. This is how I read the Hebrew text in Hebrew word for word. The words in parentheses are not part of the Hebrew sentence structure but are given in translation in order to make the English translation complete.
4. A minor prophet of the Hebrew Bible is not a tern to mean "minor" in spiritual authority or having a less spiritual message of importance. The twelve so-called "minor prophets" of the Hebrew Bible are classified as such due to their writings being a great deal less in quantity (not spiritual quality) compared with the writings of the three major prophets of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.
5. There are three main sections of the Hebrew Bible: 1. Torah (the five books containing the Law of Moses) 2. The prophets (consisting of the messages spoken by the prophets themselves both major and minor) 3. The writings (consisting of books such as Psalms, Proverbs, Laminations, but also includes the books of Ezra, Nehemiah, and Daniel.
6. Malachi 4:4 according to the KJV Christian Bible. This same verse is found in Malachi 3:22 in the Hebrew Bible.
7. The fix-all to the mounting evidence contained within the first-century New Testament text that exposes Islam's doctrine and reveals Mohammad's ignorance on both the Hebrew and Christian text is simply to say that the Christian text are corrupted without a stitch of evidence as well. Isn't that so amazing and convenient?
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"The Islamic Proof Application of Jewish Corruption of the Hebrew Scriptures"
This "Islamic proof" application is based upon the revelation given to Mohammad in Arabic from the Mother Book (Ummul Katib) / The Preserved Tablet (Lawh al Mahfuz) that states, "then altered it (the word of God) after they (the Jews) had understood it, and they know it" - Koran 2:75
Please answer every question with as much detail as possible. All unanswered questions will be considered that you are without historical evidence proof of your believed Jewish corruption claim. Since the Koran is what is in great question here, you as a Muslim must travel outside your Koran so that you may attempt to convince the non-Muslim world better known to you perhaps, as "Dar al-harb".
1. Please provide in complete detail "all" Hebrew texts that have been altered including all words that have been added to the Hebrew text and "all" words that have been subtracted from the Hebrew text. __________________________________________________________
2. Please provide full complete details of what all portions of the supposedly altered Hebrew text "originally stated" word for word "before" they were supposedly altered. __________________________________________________________
3. Please provide "all" exact dates (in exact calender years) as to "when" each and every altercation of the Hebrew scriptures occurred. _________________________________________________________
4. Please provide "all" exact locations (including the names of cities or nearest city) of "where" each and every altercation of the Hebrew scriptures occurred. _________________________________________________________
5. Please provide a full and complete list of each and every name(s) and title(s) of "all" Jewish persons who were supposedly involved in the altercation of the Hebrew scriptures. _________________________________________________________
6. Please provide a full and complete list of any and "all" ancient "historical sources" that would even remotely suggest that the Hebrew scriptures have been willful and deliberately altered. ________________________________________________________
7. Please explain in full and complete detail "why" 1st. century Isa, so-called prophet of Islam, who stated a lot of negative rebukes towards the Jews of his day, never mentioned the Jews being guilty of altering their scriptures. _________________________________________________________
8. Please explain in full and complete detail "why" every single prophet that prophesied "after" any scripture altercation supposedly occurred, never corrected by the "word of God" that they had, never corrected the Holy Hebrew scriptures. __________________________________________________________
9. Outside the obvious "picking and choosing" of certain Hebrew scriptures that Islam wants to use in order to paint Mohammad into the Hebrew scriptures such as Deuteronomy 18:15, on what non-bias basis causes you to be sure that such scriptures themselves are not altered in like-manner of the ones that you believe are? __________________________________________________________
10. Please explain in full detail "why" you don't think it's hypocritical of Islam to claim a Jewish corruption of the Hebrew scriptures of which no name(s) location(s) or years are given as a source, when Uthman (644 - 656 C.E.) had four men rewrite the "Hafsah codex" that caused such a great four-way division that he had all previous versions burned in a place in or near Medina where he died. __________________________________________________________
Note: These simple claim-proving questions shouldn't be difficult to answer given the fact that the Hebrew Bible is the most widely bought and read book in the history of mankind. Given it's world-wide popularity it would be impossible for any sufficient change of the context to go unnoticed and unrecorded as was the case when Islamic history recorded a corrupted Koran controversy concerning the caliph Uthman burning earlier versions that differ from today's accepted Koran. Therefore, any reluctance towards taking such a challenge demonstrates just how weak Islam is when put to the test.
4. A minor prophet of the Hebrew Bible is not a tern to mean "minor" in spiritual authority or having a less spiritual message of importance. The twelve so-called "minor prophets" of the Hebrew Bible are classified as such due to their writings being a great deal less in quantity (not spiritual quality) compared with the writings of the three major prophets of Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel.
5. There are three main sections of the Hebrew Bible: 1. Torah (the five books containing the Law of Moses) 2. The prophets (consisting of the messages spoken by the prophets themselves both major and minor) 3. The writings (consisting of books such as Psalms, Proverbs, Laminations, but also includes the books of Ezra, Nehemiah, and Daniel.
6. Malachi 4:4 according to the KJV Christian Bible. This same verse is found in Malachi 3:22 in the Hebrew Bible.
7. The fix-all to the mounting evidence contained within the first-century New Testament text that exposes Islam's doctrine and reveals Mohammad's ignorance on both the Hebrew and Christian text is simply to say that the Christian text are corrupted without a stitch of evidence as well. Isn't that so amazing and convenient?
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"The Islamic Proof Application of Jewish Corruption of the Hebrew Scriptures"
This "Islamic proof" application is based upon the revelation given to Mohammad in Arabic from the Mother Book (Ummul Katib) / The Preserved Tablet (Lawh al Mahfuz) that states, "then altered it (the word of God) after they (the Jews) had understood it, and they know it" - Koran 2:75
Please answer every question with as much detail as possible. All unanswered questions will be considered that you are without historical evidence proof of your believed Jewish corruption claim. Since the Koran is what is in great question here, you as a Muslim must travel outside your Koran so that you may attempt to convince the non-Muslim world better known to you perhaps, as "Dar al-harb".
1. Please provide in complete detail "all" Hebrew texts that have been altered including all words that have been added to the Hebrew text and "all" words that have been subtracted from the Hebrew text. __________________________________________________________
2. Please provide full complete details of what all portions of the supposedly altered Hebrew text "originally stated" word for word "before" they were supposedly altered. __________________________________________________________
3. Please provide "all" exact dates (in exact calender years) as to "when" each and every altercation of the Hebrew scriptures occurred. _________________________________________________________
4. Please provide "all" exact locations (including the names of cities or nearest city) of "where" each and every altercation of the Hebrew scriptures occurred. _________________________________________________________
5. Please provide a full and complete list of each and every name(s) and title(s) of "all" Jewish persons who were supposedly involved in the altercation of the Hebrew scriptures. _________________________________________________________
6. Please provide a full and complete list of any and "all" ancient "historical sources" that would even remotely suggest that the Hebrew scriptures have been willful and deliberately altered. ________________________________________________________
7. Please explain in full and complete detail "why" 1st. century Isa, so-called prophet of Islam, who stated a lot of negative rebukes towards the Jews of his day, never mentioned the Jews being guilty of altering their scriptures. _________________________________________________________
8. Please explain in full and complete detail "why" every single prophet that prophesied "after" any scripture altercation supposedly occurred, never corrected by the "word of God" that they had, never corrected the Holy Hebrew scriptures. __________________________________________________________
9. Outside the obvious "picking and choosing" of certain Hebrew scriptures that Islam wants to use in order to paint Mohammad into the Hebrew scriptures such as Deuteronomy 18:15, on what non-bias basis causes you to be sure that such scriptures themselves are not altered in like-manner of the ones that you believe are? __________________________________________________________
10. Please explain in full detail "why" you don't think it's hypocritical of Islam to claim a Jewish corruption of the Hebrew scriptures of which no name(s) location(s) or years are given as a source, when Uthman (644 - 656 C.E.) had four men rewrite the "Hafsah codex" that caused such a great four-way division that he had all previous versions burned in a place in or near Medina where he died. __________________________________________________________
Note: These simple claim-proving questions shouldn't be difficult to answer given the fact that the Hebrew Bible is the most widely bought and read book in the history of mankind. Given it's world-wide popularity it would be impossible for any sufficient change of the context to go unnoticed and unrecorded as was the case when Islamic history recorded a corrupted Koran controversy concerning the caliph Uthman burning earlier versions that differ from today's accepted Koran. Therefore, any reluctance towards taking such a challenge demonstrates just how weak Islam is when put to the test.
7 comments:
compare Dead sea scroll of 100BC and Masoretic texts of 700AD , you will witness words were changed.
now what if we have paleo-hebrew writings on tablets? ('the originals')
Will you be certain words were not changed?
To Anonymous (6-21-2013 posting)
There is a reason as to why you were limited to "words were changed" and that is because neither the conveying or meaning of the Masoretic has changed with the Dead Sea Scrolls. This is why there is absolutely no controversy among the religious Jewish scholars concerning the Masorectic text.
In fact, scholars both Jewish and non-Jewish alike were very surprised of how close the Masorectic text is to the Dead Sea scrolls given there near millennium of separation, which is a testimony of how well the Jews have kept their prophets words, not to mention the rebuke to the lie Mohammed told on them.
Perhaps you would like to try again while showing some examples of your claims?
-Joe Whiteehad
Many people have written, how it was the Arab Racists, Motivated by Islam, who for hundreds of Years sold Blacks into Slavery and ran the Slave Trade, NOT the Jews, even hundreds of Years ago Arabs were the Most Hateful and Racist people on Earth, today we see the Awful Truth of Arab hatred towards all Humanity.. Overall Arabs are a very Evil Criminal Dishonest Race of People when you compare them to Non-Arabs.. And you see
Arab "American" Groups like
ADC.org which support Anti-American Propaganda and Lies, like
the Pig Casey Kasem - the Radio Personality, another Vile Arab Anti-Semite, who for years support hatred of Israel, since he is old and in Poor health, Me and others are Hoping he dies soon,
Seriously, I cant stand this Muslim hypocrisy. So God allowed all the other books before the Quran to be corrupted? Yet they are the Holy Books of God. What an interesting logic.
Firstly, I can't believe how different the Quran is to the bible in terms of the beginning, prophets and their stories. Big differences! Muslims will say that the Quran came to correct the errors. The prophets were all Jewish they all followed the law. Then one day Mohammed decided to change everything we believe in for this 'revelation' of his where in the beginning he needed a woman to tell him it was a 'revelation'. Ridiculous! A prophet from God comes like the others who believe in the law of God! Not like your Mohammed! He totally abolished the Jewish way for a more Arab pagan life - just look at the Kaa'ba. No Jew let alone Christian who have true knowledge of the Tanakh can ever believe in Mohammed as a prophet. So what do they do? All the contradictions in the Quran their excuse has become the other books have been corrupted. Well done Muslim scholars especially you Ahmed Deedat and Zakir Naik the decievers. All it takes is the reading of the Quran and the Hadiths(truly beautiful ain't it Muslims?)to know the Quran is NOT the word of God, nor is Mohammed the 'seal of prophets', nor is the Quran the unchanged book - Go ask Uthman what happened to the burnt Qurans and why. We were the ones who received God's holiness and word first. Who are you Muslims to come and tell us our book is corrupted?
Muslims before you come to us with idiotic arguments and excuses and scriptures out of context go read your Quran properly instead of memorizing it like a sheep!
The rabbis cannot appeal to any historical evidence. Instead, they cite the Mishnah tractate, Pirke Avot 1, perhaps written 1500 years after Moses: “Moses passed it [the ‘Oral Law’] on to Joshua. Joshua gave it to the Elders. The Elders gave it to the Prophets, and the Prophets gave it to the Men of the Great Assembly [including Ezra and Nehemiah].”
Orthodox Jews believe that the Hebrew Scriptures cannot be understood and applied without the commentary from the Talmud. Therefore, they reason, the Talmud itself must also have been given to Moses on Mt. Sinai. Why? Since the Torah is incomplete by itself, there must have been other instructions given: “The Oral Torah [Talmud] is needed in order to maintain the context of the Written Torah. It therefore contains much more information than the Written Torah. The Written Torah needs the Oral Torah to make certain that the correct meaning is conveyed and understood.”
Scripture even contradicts such a claim. For instance: “Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD and all the rules. And all the people answered with one voice and said, ‘All the words that the LORD has spoken we will do.’ And Moses wrote down all the words of the LORD” (Exod. 24:3–-4, emphasis added; all Bible quotations come from the ESV).
So you see the Muslims and the Jew have added to Gods word like the serpent of old. Ah you shall surely not die. God said they will be a thorn in your side forever because you disobeyed His Torah again and again. This was a selective and biased explanation offered above. Recently I saw an American Yid ask people in Israel to read Isaiah 53. They all said it was talking of Jesus until he explained Isias was a Jewish pre Christ prophet . Both Jesus and the prophets rejected the traditions of man. So the Kariates Jews are despised for not accepting the additions of the elders. Once I worked on a mushav in Galilee. International Ultra Orothodox Hotel. The Jews made us work as slaves because they cannot follow the rabbinic teachers without slaves. Passover was a celebration of feedom from slavery and it requires slaves to switch on air con or you break God forbid the additions to the Mosaic Law. Really any argument the Rabbis make the serpent makes as well. God bless you as your discover your extra biblical authorities of men you call master.
Once upon a time I was willing to fight for Israel. Today I am wiser and see the ZOG goverment of West Tel AVIV Washington DC is being force by groups like AiPAC and ADL to further the ZiOnightmare of a JUDAIC NWO. Poor Jews know that the organized Jewery is powerful and they are fearful of rerisals here is one righteous Jew.Article Details - American Council for Judaism
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That is most German Jews were not inspired by the political Zionism of Theodor Herzl that urged Jews to leave their homes and relocate in Palestine. While German Jews rejected the political element of Zionism, many were open to its spiritual and cultural aspects.
Norman Finkelstein
The BBC wrote on their website:
Norman Finkelstein Jewish American historian Norman Finkelstein argues in his explosive new book, "The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering" that Holocaust remembrance has been exploited by the Jewish establishment.
In his book he contends that a greater threat to the memory of the Holocaust than Holocaust deniers is what he calls 'The Holocaust Industry'.
He accuses those who exploit the Holocaust of telling lies and of naked greed. He argues that the ruthless industrialisation of the Holocaust has encouraged the rebirth of anti-semitism in Europe and the United States.
The son of survivors of the Warsaw ghetto and concentration camps, he says, "I do care about the memory of my family's persecution. The current campaign of the Holocaust industry to extort money from Europe in the name of "needy Holocaust victims" has shrunk the moral stature of their martyrdom to that of a Monte Carlo casino."
It is good when righteous Jews speak the truth to the evil part of the tribe of Edom.
medium.com has an article about Arab Supremacism headlined
"Supremacism in Islam and Others: The Explicit Secret of the Cult
Experiences from the Middle East"
by Sophia Nynnat Oct 5, 2021
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